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So Many Ways To Set Properties
Last Post 08 Feb 2017 04:37 PM by Dick Akins. 11 Replies.
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Dick Akins
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02 Jan 2017 04:26 PM  
Taking “Song Text Style” as the example, there seems to be at least six ways of setting it:
(1) Top Menu/All Media,
(2) Top Menu/Songs,
(3) Program Panel/Insert Properties for/All Media,
(4) Program Panel/Insert Properties for/Songs,
(5) Rt-click Song/Slide Properties,
(6) Rt-click Song/Edit/Slide Properties
(There may be other ways I’ve missed!)
What is the hierarchy of these??
From previous versions (e.g. 7) I’m assuming that it is something like (6), (5), ..., (1).
I can’t see the purpose for both (1) & (2) and for both (3) & (4).

Assuming there is a reason for all six of these methods, I’m wondering about the following situation: the text style has been set by (1) for example and now I decide to tweak those using (5), why do I have to start all over from scratch rather than having the setting from (1) to work from?
Dick
College Heights Baptist
Manhattan, KS
Joel Osborn
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09 Jan 2017 08:32 AM  
I still don't understand why there are song properties under "All media" and then a separate Songs section. That confuses me. I end up always changing that both places.



If you change it in 6, it will store that in the Song database and the next time you use that song, it will come back.



From my experience, this is what I've found 5,6,3/4,1/2



I don't know hierarchy between 3 and 4 or 1 and 2.



But I'm sure that 5 rules them all. 8-)
Joel Osborn
Communication Coordinator
The Connecting Church - Milton Seventh Day Baptist
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"...if we are to glorify God fully, we must engage our mind in knowing him truly and our hearts in loving him duly." - John Piper, Think
Dick Akins
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09 Jan 2017 08:47 AM  
Since it is confusing to us old timers (in every sense!), it is no wonder that novices have a hard time
with this. Having multiple ways of doing the same thing can be more frustrating than helpful. The idea
of a hierarchy is very good, but settings should be passed upward so that they can be tweaked rather
always completely redone in the next higher setting.
 
Dick
College Heights Baptist
Manhattan, KS
George Taylor
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09 Jan 2017 10:47 AM  
Hey Guys....

The answer to your main question is actually very straight forward....

The All Media settings apply to all media (Songs, Scripture, Images, Videos, Audio Tracks and External players) and the Songs settings only apply to Songs.

As far as the hierarchy goes, that has changed little since the V7 days. There have been a few adjustments to accommodate user requests but basically the same - the more specific the setting the higher the priority.  i.e. If you set a background picture of a dog to All Media and you set a background picture of a cat to Songs then all songs get a cat and everything else gets a dog - unless you set something more specific to those respective media types.

At the other end of the spectrum - if you have a song that, no matter what, you want the background to be a fish when you add it to a program, you set the background image of a fish to the song file properties so it is saved in the database.

Dick - Each of the methods that you listed are unique and would be applied depending on the users desired behavior.
- GEORGE

Welcome to the SSP Evolution!
Joel Osborn
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09 Jan 2017 11:51 AM  
"The All Media settings apply to all media (Songs, Scripture, Images, Videos, Audio Tracks and External players) and the Songs settings only apply to Songs."

then why are there song specific settings under all media? That's what I find confusing?
Joel Osborn
Communication Coordinator
The Connecting Church - Milton Seventh Day Baptist
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"...if we are to glorify God fully, we must engage our mind in knowing him truly and our hearts in loving him duly." - John Piper, Think
Dick Akins
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10 Jan 2017 12:48 PM  
Dick - Each of the methods that you listed are unique and would be applied depending on the users desired behavior.

Just as an example: what would be the difference between the "desired behaviors" when selecting "Slide Properties/All Media/Songs"
and "Slide Properties/Songs"?
Dick
College Heights Baptist
Manhattan, KS
Doug Reece
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12 Jan 2017 03:20 PM  
You may recall that not too many versions ago, there weren't properties that were only applied to just songs, or scripture, etc. Everything was "All Media". So the problem then is backward compatibility. When the new feature was released, obviously all the properties settings at the time had everything in a single properties file ("All Media"). SSP couldn't just ignore these properties now simply because there was a new way to do it. I agree, however, that it is confusing and I don't have a good idea at this time how to accommodate both the old way and the new way of doing properties, but I'm open to suggestions.
George Taylor
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12 Jan 2017 05:58 PM  
Posted By Dick Akins on 10 Jan 2017 12:48 PM

Just as an example: what would be the difference between the "desired behaviors" when selecting "Slide Properties/All Media/Songs"
and "Slide Properties/Songs"?

Dick - Great Question...

First off, what you requested is a little misleading so let me clarify that first...

The two items that you requested here are actually the same thing.  These both lead to the same Media Type (Songs) under Slide Properties and thus any changes to either path would have the exact same result.  Note that the specific Media Types (Songs; Scripture; Images; etc) are nested under the All Media type. For convenience you are allowed to jump to them from the main tool bar but it goes to the same place.

I think part of the confusion that you guys are encountering is with the overlap in the text Property Groups.  For Both Songs and Scripture there is an overlap for the text Layout and Style property groups.  This was done to maintain compatibility with property settings from older versions of SongShow Plus.  These settings under the All Media section also allows the user to make song specific text changes (if that is all that they want to control) without going to the next layer.  If a user wants to exercise more control over songs specifically for other properties like Margins; Backgrounds; Shadow; etc, then they would want to make their changes under the Songs Media Type.

Getting back to the "desired behavior" reference that I made - This is mostly about context.  To explain further let's go back to your original question and the 6 options you listed.

You asked:
Taking “Song Text Style” as the example, there seems to be at least six ways of setting it:
(1) Top Menu/All Media,
(2) Top Menu/Songs,
(3) Program Panel/Insert Properties for/All Media,
(4) Program Panel/Insert Properties for/Songs,
(5) Rt-click Song/Slide Properties,
(6) Rt-click Song/Edit/Slide Properties

Breaking these down:

Options 1 and 2 -- Selected by Main Tool Bar > Slide Properties
EFFECT - With regard to “Song Text Style” changes to options 1 and 2 will give you the exact same result.  If you were changing another property, Margins for example, the result would be different depending on where you set it. The Margin setting under All Media affects everything and the Margin setting under Songs only affects songs.
CONTEXT - Options 1 and 2 are both global settings and will be in affect every time you open SongShow Plus.

Options 3 and 4 -- Selected by Program Panel > Insert Program Item > Slide Properties For
EFFECT - With regard to “Song Text Style” changes to options 3 and 4 will most likely give you the exact same result. It will depend on where you insert this Slide Property object in the program.  This Slide Property object only affects the program items below it, but does affect them all - i.e. if you add a Slide Property object in a program and 4 songs below it, all those songs will be affected.  If you insert another Slide Property object lower in the program it will then be controlling the display behavior for anything that comes after it in the program. Again, if you were changing another property, Margins for example, the result would be different depending on where you set it. The Margin setting under All Media affects everything and the Margin setting under Songs only affects songs.
CONTEXT - Options 3 and 4 are both Program specific settings and will only be in affect when you open that particular program in SongShow Plus. If other Slide Property objects are added in the program they may change the behavior depending on what is added, where in the program it is added and the settings that are changed.

Options 5 -- Selected in a program by select song > Right-Click song > Slide Properties
EFFECT - With regard to “Song Text Style” changes here will override all other higher property settings.  If you were changing another property, Margins for example, the result would also be that it will override all other higher property settings - for this song instance only.
CONTEXT - Options 5 is a program and song specific setting and will be in affect every time you open this program in SongShow Plus and display this instance of the song.  This is the lowest and most specific Slide Property setting possible and it overrides everything else for that particular object.

Options 6 -- Selected in a program by select song > Right-Click song > Song > Edit... > Slide Properties tab
NOTE: This can also be set in the Songs database panel - select song > Right-Click song > Edit Song > Slide Properties tab.
EFFECT - With regard to “Song Text Style” changes here will override all other higher property settings EXCEPT option 5.  If you were changing another property, Margins for example, the result would also be that it will override all other higher property settings EXCEPT option 5 - for this song only.
CONTEXT - Options 6 is a song database specific setting and are saved in the song file. These properties will be in affect every time you display this song from the database or add it to a program in SongShow Plus and display this song.

I am working on an FAQ that covers the Slide Properties Hierarchy within SongShow Plus and Slide Builder in more general terms for future reference.  This will most likely end up in the User Guide as well.

I hope this clears up the confusion that you are having with Slide Properties.  As always, if you have questions about specifics of settings or anything else in SongShow Plus, the support team would be glad to take your call and walk you through any questions that you have.
 
- GEORGE

Welcome to the SSP Evolution!
Dick Akins
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17 Jan 2017 08:35 AM  
WOW! Great answer, George. 1 & 2 are a little "squirrely," in that they are identical for some things, but different for others.
I also had not realized that 5 "outranked" 6, but it makes sense. Thanks for the help.
Dick
College Heights Baptist
Manhattan, KS
Joel Osborn
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24 Jan 2017 12:52 PM  
So, I should be able to ignore the song specific settings in the all categories and just use the song specific tree?

This is not how I remember it, but it's been quite a while since I played with it. I have been setting the settings identical to make sure I get what I want.
Joel Osborn
Communication Coordinator
The Connecting Church - Milton Seventh Day Baptist
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"...if we are to glorify God fully, we must engage our mind in knowing him truly and our hearts in loving him duly." - John Piper, Think
Doug Reece
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06 Feb 2017 01:34 PM  
When you set the properties in the song specific tree, the one in the "all categories" is ignored.
Dick Akins
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08 Feb 2017 04:37 PM  
This clears up a lot. One thing I think would be very helpful is if the settings would "trickle" down.
That is, if settings are made at "All Properties" i.e., level (1) and you decide to change
something in "Song Properties" i.e., level (5), it would be convenient if the (1) settings
showed in (5) and then you could just change the ones you wanted. Example, I have
the font, fill, size, etc. set for songs at level (1) and I want to change the font size only
for one song. But when I go to level (5) to make that change, I have to re-enter all
the info in the "Song Text Properties."
Dick
College Heights Baptist
Manhattan, KS
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